Doctor Schaff in Dict. While Luciferians have nothing against Christians, Jews, Muslims on a personal level, they disagree with what they see as subservience to a demanding and arbitrary god as practiced by those faith systems. On the other hand your propositions are pointless and therefore cannot pierce an opponent. If the Arians are heretics, and all heretics are heathen, the Arians are heathen too. O. The point in dispute is not merely whether a,14. It is one thing to lament over the past, another to abandon sin and live the glorified life in the Church. [4049] The Sardinian cloak of skins is contrasted by Cicero (pro Scauro) with the Royal purple:--Quem purpura regalis non commovit, eum Sardorum mastruca mutavit. If you argue, you have already had an answer. ii. There are men still living who took part in that Council. Pray tell me who they were.L. [4160] For Novatus and an account of the dispute between Cyprian and Stephen, see Robertson's "Hist. In consequence of this he was sent into exile from a.d. 355 to a.d. 361, the greater portion of which time was spent at Eleutheropolis in Palestine, though he afterwards removed to the Thebaid. The spear then which you have hurled with all your might and about which you speak such threatening words, I turn aside, as the saying is, with my little finger. Make what statements you please, argue as you please, you will never convince me that a penitent bishop should be treated like a penitent layman.O. Vinyls. You surrender your camp to the enemy, and are we to reject one of their deserters?11. You are not dealing quite fairly: you wish me to be your teacher on the terms that you may treat me as an opponent whenever you please. It is imputed (Rev. The emperor granted a Council, which met at Milan in a.d. 354. He sincerely believed. By receiving a layman you save a single soul: and I in receiving a bishop unite to the Church, I will not say the people of one city, but the whole.5. [4091] The Macedonians, who became nearly co-extensive with the Semi-Arians about 360, held that the Spirit not being very' God must be a creature and therefore a Servant of God. I receive a layman who confesses that he has erred; and the Lord willeth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should repent.O. Spellers provides classic education with Third Grade spelling words and their definitions, along with beautiful pages for your student to expand their vocabulary skills. There is one other point I should like you to explain. Athanasius suggested that he was the teacher rather than the disciple of Arius. Baur, Newman (The Arians, p. 17), and others, bring it into connection with Aristotle, and Athanasianism with Plato; Petavius, Ritter, and Voigt, on the contrary, derive the Arian idea of God from Platonism and Neo-Platonism. He and others it is said saved themselves from exile by secretly substituting omoiousios for homoousios in the sentence of the Council. Of course I argue because I want to know the reason for what you do.O. of Chris. 14), and the doctrine of the Nicolaitans (ib. O. by the 4th-century Latin Church Father Jerome. The truth is, men are elected to the episcopate who come from the bosom of Plato and Aristophanes. [4152] The Ophites, whose name is derived from ophis, a serpent, were a sect which lasted from the second century to the sixth. I will answer you in your own words. Even Hilary by receiving baptism from the Church which always has re-admitted heretics in repentance (26, 27) acknowledges this principle. Does ancient You have settled a great question in three words, as the saying is, and indeed while you speak, I feel that I am on your side. [4124] Bishop of Vercellae in N. Italy. There is a real difference, he says (12), between the man who in his simplicity accepts baptism from an Arian bishop, and the bishop himself who understands the heresy. And it is here that you are to blame: -- Why are there walls of separation between us when we are at one in faith and in receiving Arians?L. We do not wish, he says (4) to preclude individuals who have fallen from repentance. For it is not mere water which washes the soul, but it is itself first purified by the Spirit that it may be able to spiritually wash the souls of men.O. If on the other hand we are to suppose that his own faith was correct, but that he was knowingly baptized by heretics, he does not deserve the indulgence we grant to the erring. For there is no such thing as a Church without bishops. This opinion led to the Luciferian schism, and forms the subject of the Dialogue.The point urged by Orthodoxus throughout is that, since the Luciferian accepts as valid the baptism conferred by Arian bishops, it is inconsistent in him not to acknowledge the bishops who have repented of their Arian opinions. [4131] a.d. 328, when Athanasius was consecrated bishop. And if Satan owns Britain, Gaul, the East, the races of India, barbarous nations, and the whole world at the same time, how is it that the trophies of the cross have been collected in a mere corner of the earth? In Africa the same practice had been sanctioned early in the third century, but it seems to have fallen into disuse long before Cyprian's time. The Dialogue Against the Luciferians. As you ask for peace with a shield in your hand, I also must carry my olive branch with a sword grafted in it.L. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.This graph is for informational purposes only. Let the case be as you would have it, that an Arian bishop is the enemy of Christ, let him be the salt that has lost its savour, let him be a lamp without flame, let him be an eye without a pupil: no doubt your argument will take you thus far -- that he cannot salt another who himself has no salt: a blind man cannot enlighten others, nor set them on fire when his own light has gone out. L. Pray tell me, have you not read in the Acts of the Apostles that those who had already been,O. You surrender your camp to the enemy, and are we to reject one of their deserters?11. [4123] Bishop of Poictiers (a.d. 350). But if anyone thinks it open to question whether,28. We must further add that the Arian heresy goes hand in hand with the wisdom of the world, and.12. Dict. There is proof of its existence in Africa, Palestine, Egypt, at Antioch and Constantinople, in Cappadocia and Rome. If he that baptizes a person into our belief has had no injurious effect upon the person baptized, it follows that he who consecrates a bishop in the same faith causes no defilement to the person consecrated. But why, when you swallow food which he has seasoned, do you reproach the seasoned with being saltless? "He and Valens, bishop of Mursa (in Pannonia) appear at every Synod and Council from 330 till about 370, as leaders of the Arian party, both in the East and West...They are described by Athanasius as the disciples of Arius." During the rest of the liturgy all stood. There is no declamation in the case; my indignation is more than I can bear. Does it seem right to you that an Arian should be a bishop?O. of Chris. Certainly, but first I congratulate you, and thank Christ my God for your good dispositions which have made you turn from the unsavoury teaching of the,15. But in laying down my arms, I ask the meaning of the oath you force me to take.O. I see that you can prattle cleverly about each point that I raise; and when we let fly a dart you elude it by a harangue which serves you for a shield; I will therefore hurl a single spear which will be strong enough to pierce your defences and the hail-storm of your words. Receive then also a bishop who, as well as the layman, confesses that he has erred, and it still holds good that the Lord willeth not the death of a sinner, but rather that he should repent.L. I receive an,O. For he declared that the world belonged to the devil, and, as is commonly said by them at the present day, that the Church was turned into a brothel. And yet the Lord encourages all these to repent, and adds a threat, moreover, of future punishment if they do not turn. O. But if anyone thinks it open to question whether heretics were always welcomed by our ancestors, let him read the letters of the blessed Cyprian in which he applies the lash to Stephen, bishop of Rome, and his errors which had grown inveterate by usage.28. We are then agreed that we must speak of a,L. [4105] The allusion is doubtful. Let us even grant that the Arians have no baptism, and therefore that the Holy Ghost cannot be given by them, because they themselves have not yet received remission of sins; this altogether makes for victory on my side, and all your argumentative wrestling is but laborious toil to give me the conqueror's palm. Indeed all, whoever they may be, that are ordained at the present day from among the literate class make it their study not how to seek out the marrow of Scripture, but how to tickle the ears of the people with the flowers of rhetoric. But you say, a bishop could not have been mistaken. "The world groaned to find itself Arian." The confirmation which follows (9) is rather a custom of the churches than the necessary means of grace.The argument is felt to be approaching to a philosophical logomachy (10, 11), but it is resumed by the Luciferian. L. Pray, have you not read what is said concerning the bishops,(.6. The truth is I am unable to answer you a word, but I do not yet give a hearty assent to what you say.17. But, I entreat you, refrain from common-places, and return to the ground and the lines marked out; afterwards, if you like, we will take a wider range.L. But are they? Your Church is bright with his flame, and do you accuse his lamp of being extinguished? A discussion of both it and its companion term hypostasis may be found in Newman's Arians, Appendix p. 432. If they are not Christ's, they belong to the devil.O. You are quite a rhetorician, and fly from the thicket of controversy to the open fields of declamation. O. How many can you find among them who are not fully instructed in these writers? of Chris. When all were seated, Helladius the Luciferian said, I want an answer first to my question. Fremantle, “The Dialogue Against the Luciferians” in NPNF 2, vol. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: Series II/Volume VI/Treatises/The Dialogue Against the Luciferians. Enabling JavaScript in your browser will allow you to experience all the features of our site.©1997-2020 Barnes & Noble Booksellers, Inc.Saint Jerome was a Christian priest, confessor, theologian, and historian. There is not even a layman among them, how can there be a bishop? He also taught the indifference of actions in themselves, and maintained that they take their quality from opinion or from legislation; he advocated community of goods and of wives, basing his views on the doctrine of natural rights. Does ancient ...Changes we are experiencing in society seem to be unprecedented. There is a difference between shedding tears for sin, and handling the body of Christ; there is a difference between lying prostrate at the feet of the brethren, and from the high altar administering the Eucharist to the people. But when you stop, some old misgivings arise as to why we receive those who have been baptized by heretics.O. He is best known for his translation of most of the Bible into Latin, and his commentaries on the Gospels. If a,5. Almost all our party, or rather not mine any more, use it as a sort of controversial battering ram: as such I am exceedingly glad to see it broken to pieces and pulverized. Orthodoxus recalls the victories of the Church, which the Luciferians speak of as corrupt (15). If,27. [4055] That is diocese. Christ's powerful opponent, forsooth, gave over to him the.16. Javascript is not enabled in your browser. Book III. 236-237, etc. But if anyone thinks it open to question whether heretics were always welcomed by our ancestors, let him read the letters of the blessed Cyprian in which he applies the lash to Stephen, bishop of Rome, and his errors which had grown inveterate by usage.(,28. The shame is that, though they have the true creed, they have too little faith. Though he received ordination from Paulinus, who had been consecrated by Lucifer, he had no sympathy with Lucifer's narrower views, as he shows plainly in this Dialogue. [4159] Cyprian's opinion as stated in his reply to the Numidian and Mauritanian bishops (Ep. And what is the position, I should like to know, of those excessively scrupulous, or rather excessively profane persons, who assert that there are more synagogues than Churches? ii. You are not dealing quite fairly: you wish me to be your teacher on the terms that you may treat me as an opponent whenever you please. Lucifer, in the earnestness of his anti-Arian opinion, refused to acknowledge as bishops those who had come over from Arianism, though he accepted the laymen who had been baptized by Arian bishops. Lo! Lucifer distinguished himself by resisting a proposition to condemn Athanasius, and did not hesitate to oppose the emperor with much violence. What do we mean by saying that John in his baptism could not give the Holy Spirit to others, yet gave him to Christ? The Luciferian at first (2) in his eagerness, declares the Arians to be no better than heathen; but he sees that he has gone too far, and retracts this opinion. Please include your email address if you'd like a reply.Grow your general knowledge with Booko: 1423 QI Facts to Bowl You Over,Grow your general knowledge with Booko: How Food Works.Booko is reader-supported. 20) on account of Jezebel the prophetess, and the idol meats, and fornication. L. I was reserving that passage until last, and you have anticipated my question about it. But the question was a captious one, and you shall have the full credit of victory in the first point. How is a soul purged from its former stains which has not the Holy Ghost? Cyprian of blessed memory tried to avoid broken cisterns and not to drink of strange waters: and therefore, rejecting heretical baptism, he summoned his(,24. L. The account I used before to hear given of these things was widely different, and, as I now think, better calculated to promote error than hope. He was thus brought into antagonism with Athanasius himself, who, it has been seen, presided at Alexandria. See note on ch. And we, replies Orthodoxus, by admitting the bishops save not them only but their flocks also. But how shall I describe your habit of applying the laws of the Church to heretics, and of exposing the virgin entrusted to you in the brothels of harlots? The Principal Works of St. Jerome— St. Jerome. He appears, however, to have been reconciled before his death. One of the earliest of the Gnostics (second century). We agree in.O. or let hands be laid upon those of the people of Pergamum who at that time believed, having held the doctrine of Balaam? And if that is not enough, because owing to the time that has elapsed they are but few, and it is impossible for witnesses to be everywhere, if we read the acts and names of the bishops of the Council of Nica, we find that those who we saw just now were welcomed back, did subscribe the.L. [4118] The teaching of Ætius and Eunomius, the Anomoeans, who were the extremists of the Arians. what the prophet said is fulfilled:(.O. We do not wish, he says (4) to preclude individuals who have fallen from repentance. All returned in.L. (20) Lucifer who was a good shepherd, and Hilary the Deacon, in separating their own small body into a sect have left the rest a prey to the wolf(20, 21). Current selection is: eBook,

Saint Jerome was a Christian priest, confessor, theologian, and historian. His loquacity was odious and the language he employed most abusive. The emperor granted a Council, which met at Milan in a.d.354. There was a problem with saving your item(s) for later. If they are not Christ's, they belong to the devil.O. This leads to a valuable chapter of Church history. But he wishes to be assured that what Orthodoxus recommends has been really the practice of the,1. I shall perhaps be tedious in my explanation, but it is worth while if the truth gains.22. This Dialogue was written about 379, seven years after the death of Lucifer, and very soon after Jerome's return from his hermit life in the desert of Chalcis. Seeing, therefore, that at that time three hundred bishops or more welcomed a few men whom they might have rejected without injury to the Church, I am surprised that certain persons, who are certainly upholders of the faith of Nicaea, are so harsh as to think that(,21. O. We receive the laity, because no one will be induced to change, if he knows he must be baptized again. It hardly appears to have been formed into a separate organization, though an appeal was made to the emperor by some Luciferian presbyters about the year 384, and both Ambrose and Augustine speak of him as having fallen into the schism.The argument of the Dialogue may be thus stated. Select Option. Pray tell me who they were.L. [4144] Bishop of Rome from May 12, a.d. 254, to Aug. 2, a.d. 257. And it is here that you are to blame:-Why are there walls of separation between us when we are at one in faith and in receiving Arians?L. [4122] In August 362, "All Egypt seemed to assemble in the city (Alexandria), which blazed with lights and rang with acclamations; the air was fragrant with incense burnt in token of joy; men formed a choir to precede the Archbishop; to hear his voice, to catch a glimpse of his face, even to see his shadow, was deemed happiness." I see that you can prattle cleverly about each point that I raise; and when we let fly a dart you elude it by a harangue which serves you for a shield; I will therefore hurl a single spear which will be strong enough to pierce your defences and the hail-storm of your words. Explain why you receive a layman coming from the Arians, but do not receive a bishop.L. But it is quite absurd to imagine that, going as a pupil to the master, he understands his art before he has been taught. His opponent on the other hand, with reason indeed, but without due regard to time and place, urged that Christ did not die in vain, and that it was for something more than a Sardinian cloak of skins(.2. On the present occasion it is not my aim to either accuse or defend the Arians, but rather to get safely past the turning-post of the race, and to maintain that we receive a bishop for the same reason that you receive a layman. Introduction. I might spend the day in speaking to the same effect, and dry up all the streams of argument with the single Sun of the Church. What did he believe? But as we have already had a long discussion and the protracted controversy has wearied out the attention of our audience, I will tell you my opinion briefly and without reserve. Though he received ordination from Paulinus, who had been consecrated by Lucifer, he had no … If you remember what has been said you would know that you have been already answered; but in yielding to the love of contradiction you have wandered from the subject, like those persons who are talkative rather than eloquent, and who, when they cannot argue, still continue to wrangle. You must not suppose that victory rests with you only. If Christ has no Church, or if he has one only, in Sardinia, be has grown very poor. But will you be so good as to fully explain to me, not in the character of an opponent but of a disciple, why it is that the Church receives those who come from the Arians? Cyprian of blessed memory tried to avoid broken cisterns and not to drink of strange waters: and therefore, rejecting heretical baptism, he summoned his,24. If some angel or apostle has re-baptized you, I will not disparage your procedure. John Chrysostom, and none of his works is more popular than On the Priesthood. We ought to remain in that Church which was rounded by the Apostles and continues to this day. But if the Arians are heathen and it is beyond dispute that the church has no communion with the Arians, that is with the heathen, it is clear that your church which welcomes bishops from the Arians, that is from the heathen, receives priests of the Capitol.O. Before I can be a disciple, I must hear one preach whom I feel to be my master.O. Luciferians describes two quite separate heterodox tendencies in opposition to the Roman Catholic Church. (of not holding communion with heretics). The point in dispute is not merely whether a bishop is incapable of penitence and a layman capable, but whether a heretic has received valid baptism. Died a.d. [4089] At Holy Communion the first prayer of the faithful was said by all kneeling. You are conqueror. This Dialogue was written about 379, seven years after the death of Lucifer, and very soon after Jerome's return from his hermit life in the desert of Chalcis. There are men still living who took part in that Council. 6 (New York, 1893), pp. Biog. L. I was reserving that passage until last, and you have anticipated my question about it. Don't you know that the laying on of hands after baptism and then the invocation of the Holy Spirit is a custom of the Churches? It happened not long ago that a follower of Lucifer had a dispute with a son of the Church. Some of them believed that the serpent of. 250). But as we have already had a long discussion and the protracted controversy has wearied out the attention of our audience, I will tell you my opinion briefly and without reserve. Your Church is bright with his flame, and do you accuse his lamp of being extinguished? If you remember what has been said you would,O. May I always when I argue be so fortunate as to exchange wrong opinions for better ones. Since you put the whole thing in a nutshell and obstinately cling to your position, that the case of the,O. Do you demand Scripture proof? Yes, says the objector, they are like John the Baptist, whose baptism needed to be followed by that of Christ. Since Hilary when he left the Church wasonly a deacon, and since the Church is to him, though to him alone, a mere worldly multitude, he can neither duly celebrate the Eucharist, for he has no bishops or priests, nor can he give baptism without the Eucharist. But when you stop, some old misgivings arise as to why we receive those who have been,O. The empirical, rational, logical tendency of Arianism is certainly more Aristotelian than Platonic, and so far Baur and Newman are right; but all depends on making either revelation and faith, or philosophy and reason, the starting point and ruling power of theology." For seeing that a man, baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, becomes a temple of the Lord, and that while the old abode is destroyed a new shrine is built for the Trinity, how can you say that sins can be remitted among the Arians without the coming of the Holy Ghost? The spear then which you have hurled with all your might and about which you speak such threatening words, I turn aside, as the saying is, with my little finger. 71) was that converts must be baptized, unless they had received the regular baptism of the Church before falling into heresy or schism, in which case imposition of hands would suffice. I drop my hands in token of submission. Will you point out how, after the Council of Nicæa, they relapsed into their unfaithfulness?O. But an Arian has no faith but this (close your ears, my hearers, that you may not be defiled by words so grossly impious), that the Father alone is very God, and that Jesus Christ our Saviour is a.L. Prologue. You have settled a great question in three words, as the saying is, and indeed while you speak, I feel that I am on your side. When all were seated, Helladius the Luciferian said, I want an answer first to my question. I do not think that those who form our audience are so ignorant of the sacred books that many words are needed to settle this little question. But wickedness does not long lie hid, and the sore that is healed superficially before the bad humour has been worked off breaks out again. Let him lay aside his(,O. I will answer you in your own words. Though he received ordination from Paulinus, who had been consecrated by Lucifer, he had no sympathy with Lucifer's narrower views, as he shows plainly in this Dialogue. Augustine of Hippo. For seeing that a,7. An Arian has no baptism; how is it then that he has the episcopate? Noah's ark was a type of the Church, as the Apostle Peter says-(,23. Is there any indication of his having said, Let them be re-baptized who have been baptized in the faith of the Nicolaitans? But when I receive a lay penitent, it is with,O. Saint Jerome was a Christian priest, confessor, theologian, and historian. The personality of the Holy Ghost appears to have been denied. But when I receive a lay penitent, it is with laying on of hands, and invocation of the Holy Spirit, for I know that the Holy Spirit cannot be given by heretics.O. We are both conquerors, and each of us carries off the palm,-you are victorious over me, and I over my error.